Talk: 1 Timothy 2:8-15, Holy Trinity Frogmore
David Heath-Whyte, 5th Feb 2006
This is what I intended to say, and by and large I stuck to it - but I recommend listening to the audio version (when we get it on the site), because it's a sermon, and they're better like that...
David Heath-Whyte.
Intro
Men cf. Women
A further education college decided to run an evening course for men, including these topics:
- Lavatory paper rolls: do they grow on the holders? Round table discussion.
- The after-dinner dishes and silverware: can they levitate and fly into the kitchen sink? Examples on video.
- Learning how to find things, starting with tooking in the right place instead of turning the house upside down while screaming. Open forum.
- Real men ask for directions when lost. Real-life testimonials.
[Times June 2002]
That was written by a woman, wasn't it?
It's funny how different men and women are, isn't it?
And God teaches us, in the Bible, that these differences are part of his created order - it's part of how he's made the world - and he says that it is good.
And in a good church, a good pastor will understand the differences between men and women, and the things that affect them.
Pastor & Apostle
The apostle Paul was a good pastor.
When he wrote to Timothy about how to lead the church in Ephesus, he knew, as a pastor, things that men need help with, things that women need help with - if they're going to live in godliness.
But he wrote as well as an apostle with Christ's authority: what he wrote is God's Word today.
And 3:15 gives us the theme of the letter 1 Timothy: he's writing to Timothy so that "[he] will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God"
Paul, the apostle and pastor, wants to establish good patterns of conduct in the local church.
And so this letter is like a health check for us, here at Holy Trinity: making sure that we're a church that is on the right track.
We've seen so far that a good church is a Gospel-centred church; helping people to depend on the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, teaching sound doctrine, and encouraging godliness.
A good church is a Gospel-centred church, growing godly disciples.
But that will clash with the world's values, won't it?
World vs Word
There are many ways that Biblical teaching clashes with contemporary ideas.
eg: value
For example, in our society, the value of a person is often seen in terms of how powerful they are, or how much money they earn.
A lawyer earning £60K a year is seen as more valuable than a mother looking after her children at home.
But how does God sees value? In terms of self-giving service: Jesus said: "...whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all." (Mark 10:43-44)
And when it comes to salvation - God makes no distinctions - we are all of equal value: (Galatians 3:28) "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
Rubbish, says the world - who's got the most money, oil, or power?
God's Word clashes with the world - and there are lots of examples.
which way?
The question is, as believers, as God's church: Which way shall we go?
But there is no question: we go God's way - and the moment we think there's a even a question to ask - we've fallen into the same old trap - the trap of sin - exactly the mistake that Eve made in the garden of Eden.
In Genesis 3, Eve, the representative first women, had a conversation with Satan, the serpent - where he distorted God's Word, and she doubted God's Word. And she chose not to go God's way.
And we make the same mistake, when we say: "but God can't have meant that; after all, these days..."
If we ignore just one page of the Bible - we might as well bin the lot, because we've said: "I'm in charge, not God"
Men & Women
But isn't that exactly what the Church of England has done, in its handling of this page in the bible, and with a number of other issues? It's tragic, isn't it?
In our passage from 1 Timothy today, we see the clear Bible teaching that Men & Women, equal in value before God, have different roles in the Church, because of their different roles in his created order. In the Church, a woman is not to teach or to have authority over a man. A vicar, or a Bishop, should be a man - according to God's word.
But before we get to that - there are two other areas here, where, in the church, worldliness might reign instead of godliness.
Pray with purity
The first is prayer.
v. 8 - Pray with purity - carrying on the theme of the opening half of the chapter.
And this is a particular issue for men: Paul Wants men to be leading the way in prayer - with purity, resisting their inclination to get hot under the collar. "I want men everywhere to lift up holy hands in prayer, without anger or disputing."
Men, pray with purity.
temperament?
Presumably the women are doing all right with prayer - but men have a problem of temperament.
When something tricky happens in the church - how do the men react? When the local rulers (that we've heard about earlier in the chapter) have got it in for the church, what do the men do about it?
One psychiatrist has said: "When people run up against life and find it too much for them, one swears, one gets a headache, one gets drunk and one prays"
Many men would turn first to anger and argument rather than prayer. Their general hot-headedness stops them from praying effectively.
So here is an apostolic command: Paul says: "I want men ...." to do this. The phrase means that Paul is speaking with authority as (1:1) "an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God" - apostolic authority.
And the command to men is to "lift up holy hands in prayer" - emphasising purity, more than posture. Men: Godliness is important, Praying is important: pray, with purity.
concentrate
Martin Luther, the church reformer in Europe 500 years ago, once noticed his puppy at the family meal table.
The puppy looked to get a morsel of meat from his master, and watched with open mouth and motionless eyes;
Luther said, 'Oh, if I could only pray the way this dog watches the meat! All his thoughts are concentrated on the piece of meat. Otherwise he has no thought, wish or hope."
And Paul wants men to pray, without being distracted by anger and disputing. To pray with purity.
do it
Now we should have no doubt that God answers prayer.
Look what happened to the Religious and Racial Hatred Bill! Humanly speaking - it was going to sail through the House of Commons, and it was guaranteed to become law. But - on Tuesday night, the government, by complete surprise, lost two key votes - softening the bill, and making it less likely for Christians to be prosecuted for proclaiming that Jesus is the only way to God.
Humanly speaking, all was lost. But God is sovereign, and answered the prayers of many many Christians.
So, men, why aren't we praying?
Where are you, at 6.30pm on the 2nd and 4th Sundays of the month?
It's not the only time to pray, but it is our church prayer meeting. And the apostolic command is to pray, with purity.
Will we go God's way, or the Worlds? The next test is next Sunday at 6.30pm, in the Beckingham room.
Pray with purity.
Dress with decency
If that was for men, the next issue is for women:
v. 9-10: Dress with decency.
God wants women to be aiming for good works, not good looks.
The way you dress says a lot about your priorities - and godliness, being like Jesus, for Jesus - that is the priority for women (and for men) who trust in Jesus. So don't put all your time, money and effort into make-up, hair and fashion - put it into what Paul calls "good works" - doing good things in Jesus' name.
modesty
v.9: "I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God."
Accounts from the time suggest that "braided hair..." and so on took a lot of time, effort & money. Hours were spent getting done up.
And there were two issues with this: first the time and expense - which was a distraction from serving Christ. And second the decency of it. The fashions described here were designed to turn blokes on. These were the things the prostitutes wore.
A godly women will dress "modestly" - says the apostle: spending a modest amount of money and time, presenting a modest appearance. And what she doesn't put into fashion and so on, she will put into living for Christ, in her church community, and amongst her neighbours.
Miss Ugly
Recently an attractive young woman won the Miss Minnesota title in the Miss USA beauty contest, and days later was arrested for shoplifting in a local department store. She resigned her title. The first runner-up took over, another beautiful girl - but then she had to resign, too - because she was caught shoplifting in another local store.
That kind of beauty is only skin deep. If you are a Christian woman - where is your beauty going to come from? Your hair, your jewelry, your clothes, or your character?
hairdos?
Now, you might be wondering: Is Paul banning having a nice hairdo, or wearing jewelry, completely?
No - because it is possible to have a nice hairdo and wear jewelry without being tarty, and without spending all your time and money on it.
Paul is emphasising what brings real beauty to a woman in God's eyes: good deeds - doing things because you're saved by Jesus, and you love God and you love your neighbour.
Good works, not good looks: Dress with decency.
God's order in learning & teaching
So far we've seen two issues where Christian men and women are to go against the ways of the world:
Men: Pray with purity; Women - Dress with Decency .
And now, in v.11-15, we come to a third, but I haven't got a snappy title for it.
But it's about God's order in learning and teaching.
And it's directed to women, because what God wants clashes with what the women of the world want.
in summary
God wants women to learn with humility, and not to be in a position of teaching or authority over men, but nevertheless to be faithful disciples.
Let me say that again: God wants women to learn with humility, and not to be in a position of teaching or authority over men, but nevertheless to be faithful disciples.
learn with humility
First of all, learning with humility - v.11 "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission."
In the local church, God wants women to be learning alongside men, from his Word.
Back then, meetings were in a less formal setting than today, and people needed to know that good order was expected.
Imagine the scene - the building is packed with people, and the church leader stands to speak from the front, it's a man, and he's teaching from God's Word the Bible. But towards the back of the building, and around the edges, there are many women, some with small children, who are talking away to each other about anything. They're not listening to what the preacher is saying, and they're making it hard for others to listen - there's a constant burble in background.
Whereabouts is this, Ephesus 65AD? No - Holy Trinity Frogmore, Park Street School Easter service!
The apostle Paul gives a gentle reminder to women to listen quietly - to learn with humility.
Not teaching
And then, v.12, God wants women not to be in a position of teaching or authority over men.
Paul says, with apostolic authority: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man"
Women can teach the Bible in a setting where men aren't present - like a Women's meeting; or in children's and young people's groups.
Outside of the church community, in business and education, healthcare, or whatever, women can take places of authority.
But in the local church, the leader who has authority, and the Bible teacher in a mixed meeting, is to be a man, and not a woman.
Put practically, Paul is telling us, with apostolic authority, that the preaching in our Sunday services, is to be done by a man.
And the person who is chosen to lead a local church, the Vicar or whatever you call them, is to be a man.
And if you have a structure where there is a pastor of pastors, a bishop with authority over ministers, that person is to be a man.
why?
But why?
There are some very capable women around, better at speaking than many men who are vicars.
There are many women who feel that they have been called to lead churches.
Why shouldn't they?
Paul explains. It's because of God's created order. The way he has made things: the way he has made men and women. And Paul gives an important example of how problems occur when that created order is overturned.
v.13 "For Adam was formed first, then Eve."
He's referring to Genesis 2: this order in creation leads to a principle that applies both to the family and to the church:
In the family, authority and leadership (expressed in a loving, self-giving and sacrificial way) is the husband's role.
In the church, likewise, authority and leadership (expressed in a loving, self-giving and sacrificial way) is vested in a man - because, that's how God has made the world to work.And v.14 reminds us what happened when Eve took authority into her hands - "And Adam was not the one deceived it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner."
When Eve took charge, she got it very wrong. And Adam and Eve are representative humans - showing us how God has planned the world to be.
So a woman may be very capable, she may feel very called, but she isn't called by God - because of God's creation order, and because of his word - the way God has made things means that she should not preach in Sunday services, nor lead a local church.
Faithful disciples
But: God does want women to be faithful disciples - and this is the point of v.15 "But [she (singular in the original greek)] will be saved through childbearing -- if they (plural) continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety."
Eve's mistake, is put right, as Genesis 3:15 suggests it will be, by the birth of a child - the Messiah - and it's Jesus, the Messiah who women ("they") are to put their faith in, to be saved, and then to continue trusting in, with love and holiness, and propriety.
So in summary, v.11-15 are about learning and teaching: God wants women to learn in humility, and not to be in a position of teaching or authority over men, but nevertheless to be faithful disciples.
Questions.
Now obviously, there are lots of questions to ask of this, and we can't deal with all of them now.
valuable?
But here's an important one: Does this mean that women are less valuable?
Sometimes, the institutional church has given that impression: power is vested in men, and therefore men are more important.
But that is a worldly understanding of ministry, and of value.
In the Bible Church leadership is about love, service and self-sacrifice, not power.
And value and importance belongs to everyone in the body of Christ - however the world sees them.
So the institution may have given the impression that women are not valuable. But the Bible teaches otherwise.
And the biblical view of ministry in the local church says: sure, a man must preach and be in authority, but the ministry of women in the local church is absolutely vital.
And that is what we, as a Biblical church, must be encouraging - and I think we are - women (and men) involved in appropriate ministry within the local church.
The Bible teaches: equal value, different roles. Complementarity.
bishops?
Here's another question: What should we do, then, when the Church of England decides it will have women bishops?
This passage, and others, makes it very clear that that would be wrong.
From a practical point of view, having a woman bishop of St Albans would be little different to today: our bishop, who is a man, already rejects the bible's teaching. Which is why our Church Council has made a stand against him.
There are many ways our denomination has already rejected God's will. The foundation documents of the Church of England are still biblical - but the institution itself is a mess.
So what will we do when there are women bishops? Make a stand. We will stick to the Bible, proclaiming Christ and his Gospel and sound doctrine - valuing women and men, in all sorts of roles that fit in with what the Bible teaches, not what we "feel like" or what the world wants.
So
So, v.11-15: learning and teaching: God wants women to learn in humility, and not to be in a position of teaching or authority over men, but nevertheless to be faithful disciples - valuable in the local church, and engaged in vital ministry.
Conclusion
Well, the aim of this letter is to get the church on the right track: so we know how to conduct ourselves in the household of God.
And in this passage, the apostle has tackled three sensitive issues of church order. In each one, we can go the world's way, or Christ's way.
To go Christ's way is not easy. But it is right, and in the end it will be fruitful - fruitful for the Gospel being heard, fruitful for believers growing in the their faith, and fruitful for people being equipped and sent out in ministry.
Will we go Christ's way?
Men: will you pray? will you pray with purity? Next Sunday, 6.30pm
Women: will you dress with decency?! With the fine cloth of good deeds done in the name of Jesus.
And when it comes to learning and teaching - men and women, will we defy the world, and the institution, and do it God's way, in accord his creation order - so that although women won't be teaching men, or being the Vicar - men and women will be working together, in different roles, but equally valuable, so that together we can proclaim Christ and bring glory to him.